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Home Forums CATCH OF THE DAY VAT: KPMG this is our only Hope

This topic contains 19 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  robin maxey 3 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #61521

    robin maxey
    Participant
    URGENT: VALUE ADDED TAX RECLAIM OPPORTUNITY


    You will be aware of the NFFF’s VAT campaign, “Fair Play on VAT” and after several months of speaking with our members and the industry as a whole we now want to step up the campaign…. its time to take action! The NFFF have been in discussions for some time with the professional services firm KPMG regarding their initiative to secure zero rating for sales of hot takeaway food, including fish and chips. With the backing of the fish frying Industry, KPMG and NFFF are now prepared to mount a legal challenge to help change the current ruling on VAT.

    The opportunity

    There is now a significant opportunity for members to make a protective claim for overpaid output VAT plus interest on sales of fish and chips in the last four years.KPMG considers that there is a strong twofold argument that sales of hot takeaway food should not fall within the European definition of standard rated catering and also that the principle of equality of treatment should apply to sales of cold takeaway food and sales of hot takeaway food.
    There has also been a recent decision of the European Court of Justice which adds strength to KPMG’s arguments. Indeed KPMG Germany was involved in one of these joined cases in which the taxpayers successfully argued that certain supplies of hot takeaway food should be a supply of goods at the reduced rate in Germany rather than at the higher standard rate.
    However, it is highly likely that further litigation will be required before HM Revenue & Customs in the UK accept that hot takeaway food sales in the UK should be zero rated. KPMG has identified a case in the UK, being a hot takeaway operator, which is prepared to litigate. This brings an opportunity for members of the NFFF to protect their position whilst this litigation proceeds through the Tribunals and Courts; this is likely to take years rather than months.

    Urgent action

    The action is now to make a claim supported by KPMG’s technical arguments and assistance, to prevent overpaid VAT being lost as a result of the four year time limits for adjustments to VAT returns. If you would like to take advantage of this significant opportunity, please send your contact details, as a matter of urgency, to:
    Denise Dodd, NFFF General Secretary, New Federation House, 4 Greenwood Mount, Meanwood, Leeds, LS6 4LQ or telephone: 0113 230 7044, or email: denise.dodd@federationoffishfriers.co.uk this our only Hope as with out Hope we may as well pack our Bags & leave

    #97591

    Philip Hall
    Participant

    I don’t think it’s our only hope. We should play on the sense of national pride being stirred by the imminent Diamond Jubilee celebrations and Olympics. We can all point out via posters, press releases,etc that a Briitsh tradition is under threat due to the government caving in to the big boys.

    I think our Federation must take the lead in this. Granted, they do not have every shop’s address, but our suppliers do. It is definitely in their interest to back us.

    We can go public with the fry to order idea. Float the idea to the media and let them make mischief with it!

    What we do need to do is to act fast.

    Philip Hall

    #97593

    Cihan Oktem
    Participant

    The fry / cook to order thing is an interesting one…

    Man walks into shop and orders a Steak Pie… Staff in the shop say “Sir, you are in luck, we are just about to put another batch of Steak Pies in the oven – they will be about a minute and a half if you can wait?”

    You could do the same with fish…

    I agree with Philip, we need to act fast while VAT on hot food is a topic the media are on to at the moment!

    Turks.

    #97596

    Julie Milton
    Participant

    the hot box doesnt keep our food at the tempreture it came out of the pan,it only slows down the cooling process.Greggs who couldnt get better publicity if they paid millions make sure on lunch time there pastys etc are fresh out of the oven every few mins.if someone took the temp of a pasty straight out of the oven and then again 15 mins later and did likewise with a fish out of the pan and then from the hot box it would be intersting to see which loses the most heat

    #97597

    Julie Milton
    Participant

    When I say hot box I mean hot display which ours only has glass on the customer side and is fully open on the fryers side so it’s not really fully heated.if all fish shops took all the glass doors off there displays would it be a good argument on vat unfairness

    #97617

    robin maxey
    Participant

    How about doing a drive slow on the M6 & M1 at the same time we will get there attention then & I want to be in the fast lane lol cherry in the slow lane , Grumps in the middle , what do you think ,

    #97623

    Philip Hall
    Participant

    @vatman&robin 76869 wrote:

    How about doing a drive slow on the M6 & M1 at the same time we will get there attention then & I want to be in the fast lane lol cherry in the slow lane , Grumps in the middle , what do you think ,

    Grumps wagon takes up all three lanes on its own!

    Philip Hall

    #97624

    Martin
    Member

    I just sent this to my MP. Feel free to alter and send to your MP.

    Dear Mr. Vara
    Although I have now retired from the trade, I have owned fish and chip business’ in Peterborough since 1969. Fish and chip shops were dealt a body blow from which the trade has never fully recovered when VAT was imposed on hot take away foods in 1984 and we have seen the rate of VAT increase regularly over the years to its present penal level of 20%.
    Most fish and chip shops are small family run businesses whose owners usually live within, contribute to and are part of their local community. We do not have the benefits of the purchasing power that large supermarkets enjoy and yet a significant part of their menu (pies, pasties, chickens and sausages) has for years been sold by supermarkets and bakers with no VAT added to their selling price. Supermarkets and bakers have always argued that they are not keeping the food hot and yet they display them in heated cabinets and serve them in thermally insulated packaging. For many years HM Revenue and Customs have allowed this unfair practice to continue despite many protests from Fish Friers.
    So you can imagine our joy when Chancellor Osbourne announced in his Budget, what we considered to be a measure to provide a level playing field. However that euphoria was short lived when we heard today that the so called “Pasty Tax” was not to become law after all. Having been a Conservative voter all my life I feel let down on behalf of my trade. It seems to me that the lobbying by Greggs, the supermarkets and an ill informed media has won the day for them. Our industry does not have and cannot afford this level of representation and once again it seems that the small business must suffer to provide profits for the large business.
    I urge you to press for a level playing field for chippies. I doubt that the Chancellor is likely to suffer the embarrassment of another U turn but there is still room for compromise. Maybe the VAT on hot takeaway food could be drastically reduced or the Revenue could reconsider the anomalies between the VAT on products that I have mentioned above. All we ask for is a level playing field that will allow the small business to compete on equal terms with the large business.
    Fish and Chip shops are iconic in Great Britain. We have fed the nation through 2 world wars, so much so that fish and chips were exempted from rationing during World War 2 and provided a good wholesome meal to the nation for well over a century. Now we need the support of our Government to ensure that the Great British Takeaway can can continue to compete and thrive for the next 100 years.

    Martin Bunning
    62 Stonebridge
    Orton Malborne
    Peterborough PE2 5NT
    01733 238677

    #97625

    LANA HAWLEY
    Participant

    @martin 76876 wrote:

    I just sent this to my MP. Feel free to alter and send to your MP.

    Dear Mr. Vara
    Although I have now retired from the trade, I have owned fish and chip business’ in Peterborough since 1969. Fish and chip shops were dealt a body blow from which the trade has never fully recovered when VAT was imposed on hot take away foods in 1984 and we have seen the rate of VAT increase regularly over the years to its present penal level of 20%.
    Most fish and chip shops are small family run businesses whose owners usually live within, contribute to and are part of their local community. We do not have the benefits of the purchasing power that large supermarkets enjoy and yet a significant part of their menu (pies, pasties, chickens and sausages) has for years been sold by supermarkets and bakers with no VAT added to their selling price. Supermarkets and bakers have always argued that they are not keeping the food hot and yet they display them in heated cabinets and serve them in thermally insulated packaging. For many years HM Revenue and Customs have allowed this unfair practice to continue despite many protests from Fish Friers.
    So you can imagine our joy when Chancellor Osbourne announced in his Budget, what we considered to be a measure to provide a level playing field. However that euphoria was short lived when we heard today that the so called “Pasty Tax” was not to become law after all. Having been a Conservative voter all my life I feel let down on behalf of my trade. It seems to me that the lobbying by Greggs, the supermarkets and an ill informed media has won the day for them. Our industry does not have and cannot afford this level of representation and once again it seems that the small business must suffer to provide profits for the large business.
    I urge you to press for a level playing field for chippies. I doubt that the Chancellor is likely to suffer the embarrassment of another U turn but there is still room for compromise. Maybe the VAT on hot takeaway food could be drastically reduced or the Revenue could reconsider the anomalies between the VAT on products that I have mentioned above. All we ask for is a level playing field that will allow the small business to compete on equal terms with the large business.
    Fish and Chip shops are iconic in Great Britain. We have fed the nation through 2 world wars, so much so that fish and chips were exempted from rationing during World War 2 and provided a good wholesome meal to the nation for well over a century. Now we need the support of our Government to ensure that the Great British Takeaway can can continue to compete and thrive for the next 100 years.

    Martin Bunning
    62 Stonebridge
    Orton Malborne
    Peterborough PE2 5NT
    01733 238677

    This is a great letter Martin. I have just read the press release from the NFFF. This would have been so much better.

    #112957

    LANA HAWLEY
    Participant

    @billingsgate 76877 wrote:

    This is a great letter Martin. I have just read the press release from the NFFF. This would have been so much better.[/QUOTE

    Just received a letter from HMRC VAT stating that as they have not had a reply from KPMG regarding the reclaim of VAT ETC since the failure of the Subway claim they will assume we are not going ahead with claim unless they hear from us.

    Anyone else heard?

    #112967
    Marcus French
    Marcus French
    Participant

    Hi

    I got the following email. so I will not be going ahead.

    As part of the work for those members of NFFF who we helped make protective VAT claims, we submitted applications to the Tax Tribunal. This meant that the members would not have to have their own hearing at the Tribunal and would have their appeal “stayed” behind litigation involving other parties. Now that the litigation is over (with the taxpayer having lost), this letter is asking whether the member would like to withdraw their appeal.

    Unless the member wants to have their own hearing at their own cost and using their own arguments for zero rating in spite of the lead case having lost then the answer is that the member will have to withdraw their appeal.

    To achieve this withdrawal, no action is required. If the member does not reply to the letter by 29 January then the appeal will be automatically withdrawn. Alternatively, if the member prefers to reply to bring things to a clean finish, they should wrote a brief letter stating:

    #112968

    LANA HAWLEY
    Participant

    Didn’t hear from KPMG. Worth a try as it would have been a massive refund. Oh well back to work!

    #112996
    Marcus French
    Marcus French
    Participant

    Yes it would of been a big refund, goes back 7 years plus the 2 years waiting. What would friars do with a refund of 9 years of VAT payments ?

    #112998

    Philip Hall
    Participant

    @french-frys 94075 wrote:

    Yes it would of been a big refund, goes back 7 years plus the 2 years waiting. What would friars do with a refund of 9 years of VAT payments ?

    Grumps could afford to fill up the fuel tank on his yank tank!!

    #113000

    GRUMPS
    Participant

    @Sheddy 94077 wrote:

    Grumps could afford to fill up the fuel tank on his yank tank!!

    I think I should not have to pay road tax as I use so much petrol.

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